Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sei Paul on October 16, 2009 at 3:26am

Hello here is my Two cents comments,

Its too late to fight the battle against this sea level rise, by the time we lobby and start signing agreement, there is over millions of corrosive ozone layer gas emitted..
I mean if you gaze the coast of the island, one can see the evidence..and I can assure you that the major pollutant of this world dont give a darn thing about us small island nations..
Our president is encouraging us to seek roots elsewhere, ..I guess that the least we can do before we submerged.

cheers

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Permalink Reply by Kurt Schutz on October 16, 2009 at 3:39am

Iai te titiraki ae rang kakawaki bwa tina kaekaa moa imwain ae tina waakina aio...

"Is global warming caused by Human Industrial Activity?"
The Majority might say: "YES", but is it really true? Are we really sure, it is Carbon Dioxide that is causing the climate to become warmer?

Ko aki kona n solve te problem unless you know exactly what is causing it.

The real cause of Global Warming is still a debate until now.
The Inter Governmental Panel on Climate Change(IPCC) , part of the UN that deals with this issue likes the Idea of Man Made Global Warming... but this is only the UN Conclusion.

A number of studies carried out by Countries, independent from the UN, seem to point to the opposite direction. Its convenient to put the blame on Industralized Countries, ma e kakawaki riki bwa aomata ana ata raoi te koaua ao enaaki boo te bukibuki n aki akaka.

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Permalink Reply by Kurt Schutz on October 16, 2009 at 6:00am

Teuana te bwai ae kamimi ae eaki toki n taetaekinaki ao e mentikon naba TTokataam bwa tina "kick the Carbon Habit."

Carbon or Carbon Dioxide occurs naturally, ao eaki fair ae tina arana te Carbon Dioxide bwa te pollution ke te pollutant.. when you and I breath out, the majority of what comes out of our breath is Carbon Dioxide.... Ngkana e bwaka ban te aroka(leaves from trees) ao e mate iaon tano ao ea rai, e kaotinakoa naba te Carbon Dioxide.

We cant do without Carbon Dioxide, Trees grow because of Carbon Dioxide...
It doesnt make sense, why should we treat Carbon Dioxide as the bad guy... I dont think he is a bad guy.. haha

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Permalink Reply by Riibeta Abeta on October 16, 2009 at 6:05pm

Mauri TTokataam,

Thanks for posting this important topic and i appreciate members for their views expressed in this forum.

Ngkoe teuae Kurtz, tia ataa ngkanne am opinion bwa ngkoe naba teskeptic iaon tebwai ae te climate change kee global warming hahaha. Ao ko iranniko ngkoe Kurtz ngkee e kaan boo ana tai te aonnaba n rootaki ana system functions nte change imposed by climate change. The evidence had already been seen in several countries including developed nations, but more adverse effects have been felt in small islands. Perhaps you have not noticed anything bwa tao korakoran am spectacles akanne hahaha....joking.

Anyway, allow me to share few things on this topic.

The skeptism on climate change is still around and as always the truth will prevail in the end. To affirm our understanding on this phenomena, yes you are right, the IPCC is the appropriate authoritive organisation that we can turn to, to build our knowledge and hence base our decision on. Why we should do turn to IPCC? Because the IPCC job review and assess all current scientific studies that can be found in any literature available worldwide every four years, and build consensus on the state of climate change. Therefore all studies related to climate change are covered in this global assessment done by IPCC. As far as available in the most recent work of the IPCC i.e Fourth Assessment Report 2007, the cause of global warming and climate change by gases known as Green houses gases (which includes carbon dioxide) is no longer the debate now. You may wish to refer to this IPCC report provided in the link below for further information on this. http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/FAQ/wg1_faq-2.1.html

Rather the debate now is on calibrating the uncertainty of the timeframe and magnitude of the anticipated impacts of CC on several regions and parts of the globe. The current state of the art science knowledge now have insofar inadequate now to project local scales future impacts of CC. Another political debate on climate change is the determination of responsibility among countries around the world as to how much each country, group of countries, developed or developing, etc will cut from the national green house gases emissions registry annually, what is the tracjectory of emission reductions in relation to stabilisation of the green house gases, and the talks continue on.

I do not want to instigate another debate but I wanted to share these facts so that we can constructively build a common consensus of understanding among ourselves on the state of climate change, and make concise decisions for ourselves in the future that we don't regret.

E bati n rabwa ao ngkoe Kurtz ko bon riai ni kaaina ana tautaeka George Bush, former US President.....ma to note that he stand on this position as he owns lots of petroleum companies...hahaha

manga nakoimii kaain te marooroo ae rang n tamaroa aei.

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Permalink Reply by Kurt Schutz on October 17, 2009 at 4:43am

I agree with you Riibeta, but im a bit sad bwa ko taku bwa iaki kakoaua te Climate Change or Rising tempreature.. haha. maybe you were reading while having your breakfast... haha

Im NOT skeptical on Climate Change, haha, we all agree that Climate is constantly Changing, the only question is ??Who is causing it..?? There is a growing voice within the Scientific Community that disagrees with the IPCC conclusion.
note: Not All scientists around the world agrees with the UN report, as the issue has been politicised. It is no longer a Scientific issue, it is now a Political issue.
and its impossible to know the truth(for some time) as it is the Politicians who runs the show, not the Scientists. but the voice is growing and you will hear more of it in the coming years from real Scientist...hahah not those Politically driven UN sponsored Scientist..hehe

so why put our trust in the UN? what happen to our own local MET office, have they conducted their own independent investigation??. or do they just love to listen to the UN?...hahaha its a joke, but we need to be careful at what others wants us to believe. There a lot of things the Media and the world Political Institutions will want you to believe that are simply not true. The UN is more interested in Politics than Science, thats for sure.

There is nothing wrong with Industrialised Society, and you and I cannot survive without Carbon Dioxide. Carbon Dioxide is not a pollutant, let us not forget.

This is controversial but its worth the attention: Climate Change might be caused by something else: increased Solar Activity since the 70s and Unstable Solar Magnetic Fields are still being considered. So let us not waste our time blaming others. All we need to do is find ways to Adapt to the new reality.

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Permalink Reply by Kurt Schutz on October 17, 2009 at 5:23am

and i forgot to mention.... All US Presidents before Bush junior were never interested in Carbon Restrictions..Even Bill Clinton is not interested in Kyoto. for the same reason...

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Permalink Reply by Riibeta Abeta on October 18, 2009 at 9:05am

E rarabwa Kurtz am response ao rang ni koaua aika ko mentioned.

Good to note ae tiaki ngkoe teskeptic nte climate change hahaha....ao eti are ko taekinna ti riai n think about ways to adapt to the changes of reality.

If I read you correct, it seemed that you still do not agree with the causative agents kee drivers of global warming. You also mention that most scientists still do not believe the findings of the IPCC fourth assessment report.

If I may share views on this to help us track our mutual understanding on this important topic.

Initially, as I mention earlier, the IPCC is the only international organisation functioning now that facilitate debate and discussion on research findings related to climate change. It brings together all scientists to present and defend their findings and in the end a consensus on the international mutual understanding was reached. Kiribati is also represented in the IPCC series of meetings and yes, our own investigations, research findings were also heard and aggregrated in the chapters of the report. To reiterate the point that, its important to participate and be part of this international process so that we can have a global, regional and local understanding on what could climate change brought to us in the future. It's also essential to agree and understand what coming out from this report and to let you know that Kiribati has been part of this process since its establishment. If you wonder as who represent Kiribati, the agencies are the Met, Environment, Agriculture, etc and several other sectors. The IPCC process is purely scientific and technicallyt oriented and do not involve politics. I have also attended some of their sessions in the past and I can share here that its the only authoritive agency if we are to look out for recent understanding on climate change. I do not know any other scientists that you refer to, or any other process that we could be part of, as surely they should be part of the IPCC debate and have their research and findings peer reviewed for accuracy and consistency with the climate change topic. So yes, reps of the IPCC are real scientist and do not involve politicians. If this process have been viewed biased toward political ambitions, it would have been dissolved now and another process merge to substantiate it. As far as I know now, the IPCC is the only organisation and no other UN bodies have mandate to facilitate this scientific review process.

I will share my understanding on the drivers of climate change in my next comment. But I hope this is useful to view the merit of the IPCC findings and not any other independent scientists or other scientific process.

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Permalink Reply by Riibeta Abeta on October 18, 2009 at 9:30am

The drivers of climate change is very clear cut now and even developed countries who have been blamed for their revolutionary are cognizant of their cause.

Boldly, human induced activity through emissions of four princial green house gases, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide and halocarbons are among the ones highest in their concentration and their radiative forcings or their potential to induce warming activity. Carbon dioxide is yes not regarded a pollutant, but through fossil fuel intensive activities, they have released and accumulated concentration of carbon in the atmosphere which could easily be transformed into carbon dioxide, a most stablised chemical form of carbon in the atmosphere. These gased are long lived and their concentration are known to have enhanced the normalised greenhouse effect process. Solar irradiance contribute small to global warming and magnetic fields as you mentioned have not been scientifically approved to have caused or induce global warming. Magnetic field may interefere more with tectonic activities and radiative transmissions tilts but have never been considered as driver of global warming.

The link below detail all drivers of climate change including solar irradiance and other natural processes. For our own information, please take time to read this link below:

http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/FAQ/wg1_faq-2.1.html

I hope this is useful to our bold understanding on the causative agents of global warming and I thank Kurtz for raising these questions and the host of this forum.

Rarabwa.

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Permalink Reply by TTokataam on October 18, 2009 at 9:15pm

Mauri ngkami, Riibeta and Kurtz,

E rangin rarabwa te kamataata ao tia rangin oota raoi nte climate change ao a rangin rabwa ami iango ao ami kaotaota...Te kantaninga bwa e na rangin korakora riki te kan maroro iaon te itera aio ao riki naake a bon mwaatai iai ao n iai aia konabwai ni kabwarabwara n aron ae kam kabwarabwara.

Kam bati n rabwa.

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Permalink Reply by Kurt Schutz on October 19, 2009 at 3:07am

Ko rang rabwa Riibeta ibukin am tai ni kawenei am kabwarabwara aika a rang ibuobuooki.

ma i rang wish bwa tera ngke ko kona ni kawenei sources other than those from the IPCC. Ngkana ko ataia bwa tiaki trust am rabwata anne ao ae ko bon kauburakea naba.. haha. E koaua bwa tii te IPCC ae ata rongorongo te Climate Change?? Akea riki te rabwata ae a tia ni karaoa ana kakaei iaon te Climate Change?

Ko mention bwa iai aika a represent Kiribati nnakon te IPCC. Bootaki n ai aron te MET, Environment...etc Nanona bwa iai te independent research/investigation ae ea tia ni karaoaki iaon Kiribati iaon te kanganga aio?? Ngkana iai ao aanga aia results?? A tia ni published ke a tuai?

Ko mention earlier bwa: US President George W Bush eaki support te idea ae tina cut our green house gases ibukina bwa a rawata ana Petroleum business....maybe anne teuana te motivation.. ma ko aki mention the Presidents before him. I taku bwa Bush ngaia ae break te tradition of resistance, because of Political pressure, ea tibwa join the Climate Change movement toward the end of his term. but All Presidents before him were never interested in the Idea ibukina bwa bon iai aia independent Research iaon te itera aio ao e inconclusive. Too many scientist have different opnions, and the Presidents before Bush junior were not convinced.

Ko bae ni kakoaua aio bwa...Te tautaeka n America never ratified the Kyoto Protocol. it never did and it never will, until ea mate ngkai te boraraoi anne. ea manga kakaeaki onean mwiina. The US never ratify it ibukina bwa aaki convinced.

When you look at results from the Ice Core surveys, ao e teretera iai bwa the Earth's Climate has always been changing. There were periods in the World's History when it was warmer than it is today... yet there no factories back then... Teuana naba te kukune ae reke man te survey anne bwa e birirake moa te kabuebue ao imwiina ea tibwa keerake te te Carbon Dioxide Concentration years after... Nanona tiaki te carbon dioxide ae cause te warming bwa te warming ae manga cause te increase in carbon dioxide... Aikai issues aika a teimatoa n tuai n reke etiia.

I hope bwa akea te debate aena karaoaki iaon te issue aio, bwa ngkana ena boo te debate ao ena reitinako n akea tokina. Tii au point ae ikan katerea nakon te tia tabeka bwa... E tikiraoi riki bwa tinaaki bukiniia aaba aika a bubura, and that we have to put our effort where it matters most.. that is: Tia kakaea ara anga bwa tina adapt, so we can survive.

to be realistic, China and India are gearing up for their own version of the Industrial Revolution. So another billion of the world's population will join the Middle Class club in the next decade....hahahaha... I taku bwa bon akea ana future te boraraoi are ena manga onea mwiin te Kyoto Protocol. just like Kyoto, it will die out while Green house gas emissions will just skyrocket...

I hope bwa akea kain Kiribati aika a rang fanina te UN, bwa ngkana e bua abam ao ko aki kona n tang nakon te UN, hahaha.. E ti kona n reke buokam ngkana ko butiia Aotiteria ke America bwa ena karekea Abam teutana iaon abaia. te UN e tii kakabonganaaki irouiia aaba aika a bubura ni promote aia Political Agenda. Ko aki kona n noora matan te UN in a real world Crisis.

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Permalink Reply by Riibeta Abeta on October 19, 2009 at 8:04pm

Mauri ngkoe Kurtz ao rarabwa am titiraki aikai:

I can provide many journal websites from universities and research institutions aika karaoi aia independent research related to all aspects of climate change.....but you will note that these studies have been covered comprehensively in the recent IPCC AR4 report.....perhaps the point on the role of the IPCC isn't clear... if i may reiterate again, the IPCC e aki karaoi research ma te IPCC te institution ae faciliate te process ibukin te assessments, review and reporting of all scientific researches on climate change around the world.....kee tao bon iai riki te credible institution ao te process ae e riai te aonnaba ao Kiribati n draw it attention to it beside the IPCC???.....e na iai te raraoma n aron aia credibility institutions ke scientists akanne ibukina bwa aaki rinanoaki raoi aia reports.

There's a heaps of vulnerability and climate change related research that have been carried out in Kiribati and presented from time to time to IPCC or any other conferences around the world. These studies are not secretive and can be shared to anyone, in fact i do have copies of them as well if you or anyone wish to look at them for their own information. I do not wish to list them here ma ngkana iai te need of it, please let me know so that i can post all links of journal websites and Kiribati's research documents anytime on this site or to anyone.

The bottom line of the discussion is to understand the abrupt changes of climate change and work side to side with our partners on how to deal with this problem. Understanding correctly the drivers of global warming is also important because there's no point in preparing ourself when our present altitude is currently exacerbating and enhancing this abrupt climate change risks.

i taku bwa anne ae ti booraoi iai Kurtz kee kangaa??? ma e a kangaa ngkanne aron mitigating climate change?? tao e a bon tiku bwa tabeaiangan te UN ao tiaaki kamaraka atuura iai?hehe

Tau ma ia toki ikai ao i hope the points are clear.

Tekeraoi ni kabane ngkami.

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Permalink Reply by Kurt Schutz on October 20, 2009 at 5:18am

Thanks Riibeta for your contribution and willingness to share the materials on Climate Change.

I taku bwa e ngae ngke iai teutana te kakaokoro n iango, maa ti bane n agree bwa tina bane ni kakatauraoira kai bon iai te bibitaki ni kanoan boong ae tina bane n rootaki iai. Au point ae i kataia ni katerea bon tiitebo ma ana iango nei Teuina, ae kangai bwa ea hopeless te boraraoi ke te tua aena manga iangoaki kateana.

Ti aki kona ni bubutiia Tiaina ao India bwa ana katoka aia Economic growth, so they will grow and grow and grow for a very long time to come, and no one can do anything about it. Anne teuana bukina kai ea hopeless te boraraoi ke te legislation and regulartory regime.. Another issue as i put it: "tiaki kona raoi n sure bwa tera ae cause te Climate Change." aio teuana bukina kai eaki worth ae tina bukiniia aaba aika a bubura bwa ngaia aika a karika te kanganga aio. Ao aio te itera ae i kaokoro n iango iai ma Riibeta. I taku bwa Riibeta kain te gang are te UN.. Ngai kain te party are te Opposition...haha.

Despite the differences, at least we all agree bwa iai te Climate Change, and that we have to do something to ensure our survival. and in conjunction with Teuina's position, I like to finish off by saying: Tia mwaninga taekan te boraraoi ke tuua ake tina katei. I really think they wont do us any good.. ma tia focus riki iaon aanga aika tina kona iai n integrate with the rest of the world. Like finding our roots elsewhere, gaining skills aika a marketable in countries like Australia, NZ...etc.

E rang rabwa TTokataam ibukin am tabeka aio... ao ea bon eiwati nnakoia taan warewere bwa aa bon decide for themselves. cheers.

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