Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by ULMO on September 8, 2010 at 3:02am

My question here is, why promote more hatred? To me, remembering those who lost their lives during 9-11 is about assembling together as a nation in a respect worship fashion. It's about love and reaching out to the families of the victims to honor the memories of their loved ones. The minds of those who will be attending this burning of the Koran will perceive the Muslims as evil people and reignite hatred.

In my opinion, the burning of the Koran here shows "poor judgement." Bad things do happened but why prolong the promotion of hatred?

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Permalink Reply by Mr & Mr & Mrs Molu on September 8, 2010 at 4:44pm

Thanks for that beautiful ans..now i just want to emphasize that so far this is the first ever known public burning of a muslim holy book by christian church according to some news. However the muslims have been buring the holy bible for years and also banned christian from practising their religion in their dominant countries (such as Iran, Indonesia in some case, etc, etc). Though we see them muslims practice their religion in any country they want to, now they want to built one at ground zero close to the september 11 attack location (twin tower).
So tell me, are we as christian going to just sit and watch these people do whatever they want to us through our religion, and then in return burning their holy book for the first time makes them pissed as hell to christian.

Well for the semptember 11 attack i think what this pastor is doing is wrong, BUT then are we wrong in buring the muslims holy book, like they been buring the christian holy bible for years in hatred of the christian teaching.


ULMO said:

My question here is, why promote more hatred? To me, remembering those who lost their lives during 9-11 is about assembling together as a nation in a respect worship fashion. It's about love and reaching out to the families of the victims to honor the memories of their loved ones. The minds of those who will be attending this burning of the Koran will perceive the Muslims as evil people and reignite hatred.

In my opinion, the burning of the Koran here shows "poor judgement." Bad things do happened but why prolong the promotion of hatred?

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Permalink Reply by Bweny Kamaua on September 8, 2010 at 8:35pm

Mauri kain KOC ao riki ngkoe are ko tabeka te topic aio.

Just a little from my side,

Sept 11 attack has nothing to do with Islam religion or the Quran, The attack was by Al-Qaida terrorists - Osama Bin Laden. He was a saudi arabian citizen, married to an american woman and had children but served in the US military; he was one of the top commanders assigned to fight and overthrew the Russian empire (USSR at that time). He did his duties succesfully but later had problems with the pentagon top officials and the US government; he wanted the US military base to withdrew from the Saudi soil. He accused of planning to attack the US and he became an enemy of the US. Saudi Arabian government was friends with the US and so, cancelled Osama's citizenship. His group and motives are not Islamic based.

There is no where in the Quran that allows the abuse or killing of innocent people. The Quran emphasized equality and fairness even to your non-muslim neighbors. Jihad in the Quran doesnt talk about killing innocent people or attacking non-muslims. The best Jihad that the Quran mentions is for each muslim to fight his own soul - meaning fight himself to live rightouesly and not sinfully so that he goes to paradise not the hell fire. The Quran says that if someone comes to harm you and your religion then it is a muslim's right to defend himself, fight the enemy only, not his family members, friends, even his animals, plants, properties - just the enemy himself.

The USA is a democratic country, its constitution allows freedom of religion and association. Thats how islam was established in the USA. Iran and other countries have a different constitution so the government and that country do what it is according to their own laws.

Among the victims of the 9/11 were muslims as well. The ground zero mosque as most poeple called it, when actually its a couple of blocks away from ground zero where the twin towers were, had nothing to do with provoking the christians and the victims. The existing mosque which is much much closer to ground zero than the projected one is too small and they need more space - so they plan to build a bigger mosque, islam is the fastest growing religion in the US (Subahana Allah)

By the way, on sept 11, there were no jews dead, all the jews that work in the twin tower didnt show up on that day. Not even jewish tourists to gound zero on that day. The Jews are the most richest and prosperous people in the US, and its always true that money talks and bull---- walks (they own the government and the US).

As a muslim, I say that the pastor and those who think that sept 11 has everything to do with the Quran are making a big mistake. One of the responsibilities as a muslim is to learn the Quran by heart. Muslims spend months, some years to learn and recite the Quran, that it stays in their heart and mind, can not be erased. Burning the book doesnt not accomplish anything, the Quran is in the hearts of the muslims and they dont need the book to remember and read...its all in their hearts.

It is sad that alot of people think that Islam promotes hatred amd ecourages killilngs...its the opposite. Just like the concept of muslim women are oppressed. Talk to a muslim man and he say that its the other way around, the men are oppressed ones! Life is easy for a muslim woman, but too much responsibilities and restrictions for the men.

Thank you for your time and take care, sorry I gotta run, its time to break my fast and pray/

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Permalink Reply by Wilfred and Victoria Schutz on September 8, 2010 at 10:14pm

took the words right out of my mouth..
well said

ULMO said:

My question here is, why promote more hatred? To me, remembering those who lost their lives during 9-11 is about assembling together as a nation in a respect worship fashion. It's about love and reaching out to the families of the victims to honor the memories of their loved ones. The minds of those who will be attending this burning of the Koran will perceive the Muslims as evil people and reignite hatred.

In my opinion, the burning of the Koran here shows "poor judgement." Bad things do happened but why prolong the promotion of hatred?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mr & Mr & Mrs Molu on September 9, 2010 at 12:09am

mate you got a areally good point and well said..HOWEVER as said you are a muslim, so i guess you speaking from your own perspectives and religious belief.

Like your beautiful reply

good day

Bweny Kamaua said:

Mauri kain KOC ao riki ngkoe are ko tabeka te topic aio.

Just a little from my side,

Sept 11 attack has nothing to do with Islam religion or the Quran, The attack was by Al-Qaida terrorists - Osama Bin Laden. He was a saudi arabian citizen, married to an american woman and had children but served in the US military; he was one of the top commanders assigned to fight and overthrew the Russian empire (USSR at that time). He did his duties succesfully but later had problems with the pentagon top officials and the US government; he wanted the US military base to withdrew from the Saudi soil. He accused of planning to attack the US and he became an enemy of the US. Saudi Arabian government was friends with the US and so, cancelled Osama's citizenship. His group and motives are not Islamic based.

There is no where in the Quran that allows the abuse or killing of innocent people. The Quran emphasized equality and fairness even to your non-muslim neighbors. Jihad in the Quran doesnt talk about killing innocent people or attacking non-muslims. The best Jihad that the Quran mentions is for each muslim to fight his own soul - meaning fight himself to live rightouesly and not sinfully so that he goes to paradise not the hell fire. The Quran says that if someone comes to harm you and your religion then it is a muslim's right to defend himself, fight the enemy only, not his family members, friends, even his animals, plants, properties - just the enemy himself.

The USA is a democratic country, its constitution allows freedom of religion and association. Thats how islam was established in the USA. Iran and other countries have a different constitution so the government and that country do what it is according to their own laws.

Among the victims of the 9/11 were muslims as well. The ground zero mosque as most poeple called it, when actually its a couple of blocks away from ground zero where the twin towers were, had nothing to do with provoking the christians and the victims. The existing mosque which is much much closer to ground zero than the projected one is too small and they need more space - so they plan to build a bigger mosque, islam is the fastest growing religion in the US (Subahana Allah)

By the way, on sept 11, there were no jews dead, all the jews that work in the twin tower didnt show up on that day. Not even jewish tourists to gound zero on that day. The Jews are the most richest and prosperous people in the US, and its always true that money talks and bull---- walks (they own the government and the US).

As a muslim, I say that the pastor and those who think that sept 11 has everything to do with the Quran are making a big mistake. One of the responsibilities as a muslim is to learn the Quran by heart. Muslims spend months, some years to learn and recite the Quran, that it stays in their heart and mind, can not be erased. Burning the book doesnt not accomplish anything, the Quran is in the hearts of the muslims and they dont need the book to remember and read...its all in their hearts.

It is sad that alot of people think that Islam promotes hatred amd ecourages killilngs...its the opposite. Just like the concept of muslim women are oppressed. Talk to a muslim man and he say that its the other way around, the men are oppressed ones! Life is easy for a muslim woman, but too much responsibilities and restrictions for the men.

Thank you for your time and take care, sorry I gotta run, its time to break my fast and pray/

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Permalink Reply by ULMO on September 9, 2010 at 2:37am

Excellent point my Friend Bweny. The deed of the few should not be ignored and it is very unfortunate that the whole Muslim Faith was blamed because of what the extremists were doing in the name of Deity. One of the Analysts I know was on the African continent when 9/11 occurred and he said that his Muslim friends came to him immediately to express their sorrow about the tragic event and assured him that the perpetrators were not following the teachings of the Koran, but were extremists and the whole Muslim world was not in agreement with their philosophies.

I myself have good friends who are Muslims and I can honestly say that when I work with them, they trust me with their lives and I trust them with mine. The Constitution of the United States may assured me my rights for expression, but parts of me as a human being also warns me that "common sense" is of vital importance to live harmoniously in this life. Why do I have to feel the need to go out in public and desecrate something that is considered sacred like the Koran or even the Bible? I'm ecstatic to see your comments here Bweny and love and respect to you always....

Love and Peace to all.....

Bweny Kamaua said:

Mauri kain KOC ao riki ngkoe are ko tabeka te topic aio.

Just a little from my side,

Sept 11 attack has nothing to do with Islam religion or the Quran, The attack was by Al-Qaida terrorists - Osama Bin Laden. He was a saudi arabian citizen, married to an american woman and had children but served in the US military; he was one of the top commanders assigned to fight and overthrew the Russian empire (USSR at that time). He did his duties succesfully but later had problems with the pentagon top officials and the US government; he wanted the US military base to withdrew from the Saudi soil. He accused of planning to attack the US and he became an enemy of the US. Saudi Arabian government was friends with the US and so, cancelled Osama's citizenship. His group and motives are not Islamic based.

There is no where in the Quran that allows the abuse or killing of innocent people. The Quran emphasized equality and fairness even to your non-muslim neighbors. Jihad in the Quran doesnt talk about killing innocent people or attacking non-muslims. The best Jihad that the Quran mentions is for each muslim to fight his own soul - meaning fight himself to live rightouesly and not sinfully so that he goes to paradise not the hell fire. The Quran says that if someone comes to harm you and your religion then it is a muslim's right to defend himself, fight the enemy only, not his family members, friends, even his animals, plants, properties - just the enemy himself.

The USA is a democratic country, its constitution allows freedom of religion and association. Thats how islam was established in the USA. Iran and other countries have a different constitution so the government and that country do what it is according to their own laws.

Among the victims of the 9/11 were muslims as well. The ground zero mosque as most poeple called it, when actually its a couple of blocks away from ground zero where the twin towers were, had nothing to do with provoking the christians and the victims. The existing mosque which is much much closer to ground zero than the projected one is too small and they need more space - so they plan to build a bigger mosque, islam is the fastest growing religion in the US (Subahana Allah)

By the way, on sept 11, there were no jews dead, all the jews that work in the twin tower didnt show up on that day. Not even jewish tourists to gound zero on that day. The Jews are the most richest and prosperous people in the US, and its always true that money talks and bull---- walks (they own the government and the US).

As a muslim, I say that the pastor and those who think that sept 11 has everything to do with the Quran are making a big mistake. One of the responsibilities as a muslim is to learn the Quran by heart. Muslims spend months, some years to learn and recite the Quran, that it stays in their heart and mind, can not be erased. Burning the book doesnt not accomplish anything, the Quran is in the hearts of the muslims and they dont need the book to remember and read...its all in their hearts.

It is sad that alot of people think that Islam promotes hatred amd ecourages killilngs...its the opposite. Just like the concept of muslim women are oppressed. Talk to a muslim man and he say that its the other way around, the men are oppressed ones! Life is easy for a muslim woman, but too much responsibilities and restrictions for the men.

Thank you for your time and take care, sorry I gotta run, its time to break my fast and pray/

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Permalink Reply by Bweny Kamaua on September 9, 2010 at 3:55am

Mauri riki kain te maroro,

Apologies to my earlier writing on some grammatical mistakes and phrases - I guess fasting the whole day got the better of me (haha) But now my stomach is full and I think Im perfectly normal now..no excuses for any mistakes this time, otherwise its all on me, .hehehe.. but thank God I think y'all know what I meant..

My thanks to the one who started this because this whole thing is becoming controversial; first the ground zero mosque issue and now the Quran burning relating it all to the 9 /11 attack.

Now for your comments, Yes I am a muslim, and what I wrote earlier were not just based on my perspective point of view as a muslim, but facts. now, what made me became a muslim? Its the 9/11 attack. At first I got furious with all muslims for the 9/11 because according to the news reports, the muslims were responsible. I remember listening to my pastor's sermons so many times saying all kinds of negative things about islam and the muslims. It made me hated Islam more. I saw the news about muslim women in Pakistan and the other mulsim countries being oppressed. I sympathized the muslim women and cursed the muslim men and their Quran (Astafarralla)

But every muslim that I met in the US and in all the countries that I travelled to, acted so generous and friendly - not aggressive and they didnt look dangerous at all! That was the starting point for me to search what Islam is really about. It took me a couple of years to really learn the true meaning and teachings of the Quran - I watched too much TV and didnt want to give up my christianity roots because that makes my life easier and convenient. Once you really know the Quran and understands it, you will find yourself living within the guidelines of the Quran - so christians are lucky - you are off the hook :)

Now relating back to your topic, the burning of the Quran on 9/11, according to the Pastor is to honor the victims of the 9/11. Is that really so? There were also muslims who died at Ground Zero and other places where the highjackers crashed the flights. what is there to honor those victims?

So why blame all msulims and their Quran for a group of men who had their own political reasons for attacking the US?

Islam prohibits oppression and hostility or any kind of terrorism. Here are some verses from the Quran;

Relating to Terrorism:

If anyone slays a person- unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people. Qur'an 5:32

Invite all to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching. And argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious... And if you punish, let your punishment be proportional to the wrong that has been done to you. But if you show patience, that is indeed the best course. Be patient, for your patience is from God. And do not grieve over them, or distress yourself because of their plots. For God is with those who restrain themselves, and those who do good.
Qur'an 16:125-128

Oh you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be against rich or poor, for God can best protect both. Follow not the cravings of your hearts, lest you swerve, and if you distort justice or decline to do justice, verily God is well acquainted with all that you do.
Qur'an 4:135

The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree), but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from God, for God loves not those who do wrong. But indeed, if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong done to them, against such there is no cause of blame. The blame is only against those who oppress men with wrongdoing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice. For such there will be a penalty grievous (in the Hereafter). But indeed, if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an affair of great resolution. Qur'an 42:40-43

Nor take life – which Allah has made sacred – except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority to demand Qisas or to forgive; but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped by the Law Quran 17:33

Relating to Jihad:

The first and best Jihad that God is pleased with - O ye who believe! Save yourselves and your families from the fire whose fuel is Men and Stone, over which are appointed angels stern and severe, who do not flinch from executing the Commands they receive from Allah but do precisely what they are commanded Quran 66:6

(Slay them IF they attack you first)
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

"Fight the Pagans" - If They Break Treaties
"fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war). "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
If one amongst the Pagans asks you for asylum (protection) grant it to him so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure.
"as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."
Quran 9:5-7

These can be summed up in the following verses

Qur'an 60:7-8):
"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."

Relating to the freedom of practising their religion and worship for the non- muslims.
Quran 109: 1-6
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Say: O you that reject faith (islam). I do not worship that which you worship, Nor will you worship that which I worship, And I will not worship that you have been wont to worship, Nor will you worship that which I worship. To you be your way, to me mine

So if, Iran, Indonesia, etc burnt the holy bible and banned christianity and have been doing it and are still doing it or are going to do it again....well, the Quran is very clear about giving the rights to non-muslims to live peacefully and worship according to their own way. The Quran allows them to practise their religion.

So can we blame Islam and hold the Quran accountable for the acts of muslims in some countries? If these people are real muslims (the believers), they follow the Quran. The Quran talks about the believers and the non-believers also. Non-believers are only muslims by name. The believing muslims are those that you can see through their good and righteous deeds - they obey what God says in the Quran.

If the pastor or any christian or anyone says that he will burn the Quran just beacuse he doesnt like Islam for whatever reasons he has, makes sense . Its nonsense to relate the burning of the Quran as a way of honoring the victims of the 9/11. Its also very very wrong to relate the acts of muslims who do evil and those who burnt the bible as the true teachings of Islam (The Quran)

So is it wrong for christians to burn the Quran - for the above reasons, YES. The attackers on 9/11 are terrorits, not believing muslims. The burning of the bible and banning christianity in their country are not from the Quran either. But what motivates them? - That is important to know. Go and capture the attackers; that will be more honorable for the victims. Find out first what made these people burn the bible before jumping into conclusions. Burning a book does not accomplish anything and is not a solution at all. Because the Quran is in the hearts of the muslims, they know each and every verse of the entire Quran by heart.

I am a muslim but am I proud and support what the attackers and the bible burners did? No, not at all. Im ashamed that they are called muslims. I dont call them my muslim brothers and sisters. But I do know what the Quran says about those who do acts of evil and what they will face on the day of Judgement.

For christians, the Bible talks about loving your neighbor - will this act (Quran burning) supports the true teachings of Jesus (pbuh)?

Thank you and hope that this helps the discussion.












Mr & Mr & Mrs Molu said:

mate you got a areally good point and well said..HOWEVER as said you are a muslim, so i guess you speaking from your own perspectives and religious belief.

Like your beautiful reply

good day

Bweny Kamaua said:

Mauri kain KOC ao riki ngkoe are ko tabeka te topic aio.

Just a little from my side,

Sept 11 attack has nothing to do with Islam religion or the Quran, The attack was by Al-Qaida terrorists - Osama Bin Laden. He was a saudi arabian citizen, married to an american woman and had children but served in the US military; he was one of the top commanders assigned to fight and overthrew the Russian empire (USSR at that time). He did his duties succesfully but later had problems with the pentagon top officials and the US government; he wanted the US military base to withdrew from the Saudi soil. He accused of planning to attack the US and he became an enemy of the US. Saudi Arabian government was friends with the US and so, cancelled Osama's citizenship. His group and motives are not Islamic based.

There is no where in the Quran that allows the abuse or killing of innocent people. The Quran emphasized equality and fairness even to your non-muslim neighbors. Jihad in the Quran doesnt talk about killing innocent people or attacking non-muslims. The best Jihad that the Quran mentions is for each muslim to fight his own soul - meaning fight himself to live rightouesly and not sinfully so that he goes to paradise not the hell fire. The Quran says that if someone comes to harm you and your religion then it is a muslim's right to defend himself, fight the enemy only, not his family members, friends, even his animals, plants, properties - just the enemy himself.

The USA is a democratic country, its constitution allows freedom of religion and association. Thats how islam was established in the USA. Iran and other countries have a different constitution so the government and that country do what it is according to their own laws.

Among the victims of the 9/11 were muslims as well. The ground zero mosque as most poeple called it, when actually its a couple of blocks away from ground zero where the twin towers were, had nothing to do with provoking the christians and the victims. The existing mosque which is much much closer to ground zero than the projected one is too small and they need more space - so they plan to build a bigger mosque, islam is the fastest growing religion in the US (Subahana Allah)

By the way, on sept 11, there were no jews dead, all the jews that work in the twin tower didnt show up on that day. Not even jewish tourists to gound zero on that day. The Jews are the most richest and prosperous people in the US, and its always true that money talks and bull---- walks (they own the government and the US).

As a muslim, I say that the pastor and those who think that sept 11 has everything to do with the Quran are making a big mistake. One of the responsibilities as a muslim is to learn the Quran by heart. Muslims spend months, some years to learn and recite the Quran, that it stays in their heart and mind, can not be erased. Burning the book doesnt not accomplish anything, the Quran is in the hearts of the muslims and they dont need the book to remember and read...its all in their hearts.

It is sad that alot of people think that Islam promotes hatred amd ecourages killilngs...its the opposite. Just like the concept of muslim women are oppressed. Talk to a muslim man and he say that its the other way around, the men are oppressed ones! Life is easy for a muslim woman, but too much responsibilities and restrictions for the men.

Thank you for your time and take care, sorry I gotta run, its time to break my fast and pray/

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Permalink Reply by Kurt Schutz on September 10, 2010 at 4:58pm

Burning the Quran will not do any good.

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